The Last Jedi - spoiler

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2017 21:22

Thought I would create a post about it.

Just come out. That was fantastic. 9/10

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14418

You have spoiled it for me.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2017 22:49

Satsuma wrote:

You have spoiled it for me.

Good

myp · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2017 23:13

Kovacs uncritically liking a Star Wars film is not a spoiler.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2017 23:26

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

I was quite confused by the 10 minute long Chewbacca toiilet montage. Particularly the part he flushed his dad

KovacsC · **Posted:** Fri Dec 15, 2017 0:40

Lonewolves wrote:

Kovacs uncritically liking a Star Wars film is not a spoiler.

I was not sure if I liked how Luke was portraid.

Will see if others like it.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:32

Zomg Spoilz

KovacsC · **Posted:** Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:10

I enjoyed it as it did not spoon feed answers to you.

There are a lot of unanswered questions. Just like there was when you saw A new hope or Empire for the first time.

I like how it is passing on the batton to the new hero’s. That the rebel’s have to start again.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13386

Renowned film critic 'My brother' was not impressed.

Attachment:

Screenshot 2017-12-15 at 10.56.12.png

KovacsC · **Posted:** Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:04

Hearthly wrote:

Renowned film critic 'My brother' was not impressed.

Attachment:

Screenshot 2017-12-15 at 10.56.12.png

There seems to be a lot of angry fans, as it is not fan fiction and done what they wanted..

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13386

KovacsC wrote:

There seems to be a lot of angry fans, as it is not fan fiction and done what they wanted..

My brother's no big 'Star Wars Fan' in that regard, he just didn't rate it as a film in terms of writing and plot.

EDIT - He's actually a member here, I will see if he is minded to come on and explain himself.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14418

KovacsC wrote:

Hearthly wrote:

Renowned film critic 'My brother' was not impressed.

Attachment:

Screenshot 2017-12-15 at 10.56.12.png

There seems to be a lot of angry fans, as it is not fan fiction and done what they wanted..

This can be the only reason.

Morte · **Posted:** Fri Dec 15, 2017 15:35

Just got home from watching it (at an IMAX screen, because I'm not an animal)...it was good...go see Star Wars.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Fri Dec 15, 2017 16:16

3D IMAX was great

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

I watched it yesterday and really enjoyed it. The overall plot got a bit wearing because it felt like just one last minute escape after another but the character level stuff was all very well done. I did wonder about a couple of things:

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

How did Benicio del Toro's character know about the cloaked ships so he could sell the info to the First Order? He was never on the main carrier at any point and only the rebel top brass even knew about the plan. That just didn't make any sense.

I wondered why Laura Dern didn't just ram the First Order as soon as the cloaked ships were safely away; she was fixinf to die anyway so why wait until they'd started losing ships to do it. Missed opportunity there.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6613

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Also, if you can do that with a ship, why weren't they just doing it with remote-piloted transport ships full of bricks all the time?

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Actually, that's another point: there was precisely no reason for Laura Dern to even stay on the ship at all. It's not like they were going to look in the window and be all, "There's no one there! Shit, I bet they're all escaping in smaller cloaked ships!" There was also zero fucking reason the rebel top brass had to keep the plan a secret from everyone else, as soon as Poe asked they could've just told him. In fact, given how fucking terrified everyone was at the thought that they were just going to sit there and die it just came across as needless psychological torture. They could've had everyone on the escape ships and ready to go way in advance rather than waiting until the last minute because Reasons. If they'd bothered to keep people informed Poe might well not have sent Rose and Finn to do his plan so Benicio del Toro wouldn't have had the chance to betray them (with his apparent psychic powers) and they'd all have survived rather than most of them getting murdered. It was just nonsense top to bottom.

JBR · **Joined:** 2nd Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 3304

I really liked it. There were other holes that might occur to me, but generally it just seemed full of the wonder that I remember, setting it in a world (I like films that have ideas, life, species etc just pop up left, right and centre) while clearing away the chaff and letting the new heroes through. I wasn't mad keen on Force Awakens (liked it, mind, just didn't love it), and those plummy voices grate with me, but if Force Awakens was just creating space for that, then power to it. This one made me grin like a mad thing.

(I'm going to say it, because it seems the thing that isn't mentioned all the time and is conspicuous by its absence, though it's surely uncontroversial - Mark Hamill can't really act, his best bits, including the one big best bit, are when he doesn't have to do too much.)

Morte · **Posted:** Sat Dec 16, 2017 22:07

JBR wrote:

I really liked it. There were other holes that might occur to me, but generally it just seemed full of the wonder that I remember, setting it in a world (I like films that have ideas, life, species etc just pop up left, right and centre) while clearing away the chaff and letting the new heroes through. I wasn't mad keen on Force Awakens (liked it, mind, just didn't love it), and those plummy voices grate with me, but if Force Awakens was just creating space for that, then power to it. This one made me grin like a mad thing.

(I'm going to say it, because it seems the thing that isn't mentioned all the time and is conspicuous by its absence, though it's surely uncontroversial - Mark Hamill can't really act, his best bits, including the one big best bit, are when he doesn't have to do too much.)

Agreed on Hamill...although it might be only 'live action Hamill'. He does however have the three most chucklesome bits in the film.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Sat Dec 16, 2017 23:09

Loved it.

Enjoyed it for what it was.

JBR · **Joined:** 2nd Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 3304

Morte wrote:

Agreed on Hamill...although it might be only 'live action Hamill'. He does however have the three most chucklesome bits in the film.

That's true - the speck, particularly. And I'm happy with them giving him the best lines, as it were. It all just felt confident and in control of itself to me.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

I saw it, and I liked it a lot. I do, however, have opinions.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Rose was awful. The entire plotline with her and Finn sodding off for half the film was rubbish, especially the bit where they trashed all the stuff the mean old rich people have by setting the space horses on them. Agreed that there was no possible way for space thief codebreaker dude to give away a plan that was the exact opposite of what Finn and Rose thought was going to happen.

I liked Rey and Luke, and I liked Rey and Kylo.

I'm surprised they didn't kill off Leia. It would have been really easy for her to succumb to her wounds at the same point Luke died, and they could have easily retrofitted the whole thing in editing. Now they have to either have her die off screen between films, or crowbar a CGI version into the next film just to kill her off.

Quite a few good funny lines! Loved Poe's opening radio message to Hux. And Luke's 'shake it off' was excellent

If you could use lightspeed ships as kinetic energy weapons they'd have been doing that with unmanned ships the entire time.

Preferred TFA, but it was a good film that I greatly enjoyed.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

JBR wrote:

Mark Hamill can't really act

Hamill's Joker is the best Joker. So there.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

I thought Hamill was great. The kids really enjoyed it.

I thought it was good but flawed. The opening scene was brilliant, especially the bit with Roses sister. Poe is an absolute babe.

There were some plot inconsistencies, and Rose and Finn definitely made things considerably worse for the rebellion with their little sojourn, and it's not really a great to end up having the big bad be such a piss baby. But porgs!

Enjoyed it, but it really didn't live up to the promise of the first 15 minutes. Better than the prequels, not as good as force awakens or rogue one. Would buy on DVD. 719.5 astromechs out of 1000.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6613

I sort-of assumed that

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Space codebreaker just offered his space codebreaky skills to the First Order and space codebroke the cloaking devices, rather than having any specific knowledge of what shit was going down.

I thought the bit with the Spooky Mirror down the Scary Hole was really good.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

But how did he know there were cloaked ships?

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14418

Is there really a character called Space Codebreaker?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

He has no name. He's just Benicio del Toro, and he's a space codebreaker.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16640

Not seen it yet, the tedious Star Wars fan in the next office hasn't either but he swears that he isn't going to. He was properly angry about it. No idea why and I didn't care to ask. Most normal people seem to have enjoyed it and Zardoz did as well so I'm sure it's fine.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

God I hate star wars fanboys

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6613

MrChris wrote:

But how did he know there were cloaked ships?

He just offered to hack the mainframe on the ship to steal all their secrets, and found the cloaked ships that way.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Squirt wrote:

MrChris wrote:

But how did he know there were cloaked ships?

He just offered to hack the mainframe on the ship to steal all their secrets, and found the cloaked ships that way.

Hack the mainframe on the empire ship, how would they know about the cloaked ships?

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6613

No, soon as the Empire caught them he was like "I'm the best Space Codebreaker, I'll hack the rebel mainframe for you!"

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

To what end? Also he apparently needs to be on the ship to do it.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6613

Hey, I'm no Space Network Admin. I just assumed he instantly rolled over and used his skills, and happened to find out what was going on. Maybe Finn and Rose left their Space VPN logged in and so he was able to hack the Resistance that way.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Mon Dec 18, 2017 15:15

They told him on the ship after they free'd the Tricos. They asked him to keep it super secret.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Was that off camera? Also Finn and rose didn't know the cloaky shuttle plan.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Mon Dec 18, 2017 15:17

I could just tell.

Somebody told them.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

The consensus elsewhere seems to be that Poe told Finn and Rose about the cloaked ships over the radio when they were on their way to the battle, and Space Codebreaker overheard. I don't specifically recall that in the scene, but there we go.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14418

God I love films that use hacking as a plot point. It’s not tedious and overused at all. Hack hack hack, all day long.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Mon Dec 18, 2017 15:22

Worked for Conan.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon Dec 18, 2017 15:41

Also cloaked but not invisable.

I am seeing it again on Wednesday

Zardoz · **Posted:** Mon Dec 18, 2017 16:34

Yeah... we can all see your cape, dude.

We just didn't want to tell you straight away.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13386

There seem to be a lot of valid negative criticisms of the film knocking around that have nothing to do with upset fanboys.

I can't stress enough how my brother isn't any sort of fanboy and doesn't care about the 'Star Wars Universe' and what they 'have to do' or 'not do' with certain characters or the 'canon' or anything else - he just genuinely didn't think it was a good film.

Mrs Hearthly and Jnr are booked in at the cinema to see it on the 28th, I'll be at work so I won't be going, but will meet them for pizza afterwards. I'll see what they think about it then.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Mon Dec 18, 2017 17:29

I shall watch it again in disgust.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13386

Well it's just there's a slight air of 'only the nerdy fanboys are complaining' going on, which does a disservice to people who legitimately didn't much rate the film for reasons X, Y and Z, and not because the film's creators dared to have THING A happen to CHARACTER B and it doesn't fit the universe because EVENT E happened in a some spin-off book in 1987.

Y'know, like if you're 'normal' then you'll like the film, and the only other possibility is that you're a hateful spod unworthy of human interaction.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

I have seen it. I thought it was good, not great — but I’d really only rate Empire as great, I think. Probably better than either Force or Rogue, both of which I felt had sizeable flaws.

This twitter thread makes very good points about some valid criticisms, and also I think has a good explanation of why some people absolutely hated it:
https://twitter.com/a_man_in_black/stat ... 88736?s=17

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6613

That's very true about Rey's bits being a very different kettle of fish to Finn's. I liked her sections much more.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

I agree with a lot of what he says but not everything. For example, I think Poe's arc is excellent. A real foil to the idea that individual heroism solves every problem, which has been a theme of Star Wars to date.

He also highlights what I hated about the Rose character. She's there to tell you what you should be feeling morally about this place that's been thrown as a side plot almost as an afterthought. She's almost the opposite of the Poe arc, a black and white attempt to say 'Hey, this is bad and this is good, viewer'

Considering the entire premise of the light side/dark side struggle is basically an exercise in explaining the concept of shades of gray, the Rose arc is hamfisted moralising.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6613

I did like the way they just killed

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

that bloody fishman Akbar

without so much as a fanfare. Never did like him.

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The Last Jedi - spoiler

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