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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:15 
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Gogmagog

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Craster wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Craster wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Hold on a second, the state of sports in this country can't be that bad, we are third in the olympic medal table after all!


The point that started the discussion was that a disproportionate amount of medals come from rich kids, not that we can't win medals.


Money breeds success. Such is life in all respects.


OK, but given that we don't want a small, rich, healthy overclass and a large, fat, poor underclass, we need to fix that problem.


I'd rather not have a fit, healthy, underclass that knows karate, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:15 
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Squirt wrote:
My theory : Elite athletes are SO good, they discourage people from taking part. You've seen Bradley Wiggins do a time trial, try to emulate him, get knackered after 3 miles and quit, because he may as well be some sort of alien super-human cyborg compared to you and using him as a role model is like trying to copy Superman.


That's not how it works at all! Genuine question: Have you ever been into a sport? That sounds like the logic of a person who would categorise themself as "not a sporty person". Not trying to offend, but that theory just doesn't compute in my brain as someone who loves sport.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:16 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Craster wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Craster wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Hold on a second, the state of sports in this country can't be that bad, we are third in the olympic medal table after all!


The point that started the discussion was that a disproportionate amount of medals come from rich kids, not that we can't win medals.


Money breeds success. Such is life in all respects.


OK, but given that we don't want a small, rich, healthy overclass and a large, fat, poor underclass, we need to fix that problem.


We don't?

Awww crap.

:D


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:17 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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DavPaz wrote:
The vast majority of people who participate in sport are not in it for the competition, but for the exercise, community and experience. Many thousands of people (including Craster!) go running, but practically none of them are going to see the inside of Team GB vest.


Dream killer!

Give it 4 years, just you wait!


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:18 
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Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
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MaliA wrote:
Craster wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Craster wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Hold on a second, the state of sports in this country can't be that bad, we are third in the olympic medal table after all!


The point that started the discussion was that a disproportionate amount of medals come from rich kids, not that we can't win medals.


Money breeds success. Such is life in all respects.


OK, but given that we don't want a small, rich, healthy overclass and a large, fat, poor underclass, we need to fix that problem.


I'd rather not have a fit, healthy, underclass that knows karate, thanks.


Haha!

I'd be getting fucking shot puts through my front window rather than stones.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:19 
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Part physicist, part WARLORD

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WTB wrote:
Squirt wrote:
My theory : Elite athletes are SO good, they discourage people from taking part. You've seen Bradley Wiggins do a time trial, try to emulate him, get knackered after 3 miles and quit, because he may as well be some sort of alien super-human cyborg compared to you and using him as a role model is like trying to copy Superman.


That's not how it works at all! Genuine question: Have you ever been into a sport? That sounds like the logic of a person who would categorise themself as "not a sporty person". Not trying to offend, but that theory just doesn't compute in my brain as someone who loves sport.


I read this the other day. Seems to fit.

Quote:
And even when people do break away and achieve what we thought ourselves impossible, we label them “geniuses” and thus once again create an artificial wall between us and them, drawing ever more constraints over our potential. Nietzsche warned us against this by saying that our impulse to label the most productive of us as “geniuses” — and that is what they are, productive individuals who have built up enough experience and have created enough material from which they can select the very best — relieves us of the pressure to compete with them. The label lifts them above our playing field, separates them from us, so that the benchmarks they’ve created no longer apply to us. It’s a declaration of surrender.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:21 
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Excellent use of Nietzsche!


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:21 
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Gogmagog

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You could probably drag yourself up to a decent competitive level, on sheer practice, training and perserverance. Those that get that bit further are probably the beneficiaries of a larger heart/lungs whatever to give them that extra 0.5%

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:23 
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And they're the people the legacy of the Olympics is going to help discover!


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:24 
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My work here is done. The Olympics is awesome and everyone agrees with me.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:28 
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INFINITE POWAH

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WTB wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Well, possibly not, because that £7bn we spunked on Seb Coe's ego could have been spent on putting a decent multi-discipline sports programme in place in every single school (primary and senior) in the country, so parents didn't have to do this. I shoudln't have to pay for my son to play football (for fun!) at aged 6 for christ's sake.


Maybe I come from a sporty family or something but this doesn't seem outrageous to me at all. If you want your kids to play a sport, you're going to have to spend a bit of money, and you're probably going to have to sacrifice some of your own time to nurture a talent or just give your kids a healthy lifestyle. That'll never change.

Really? As happy as I am to pay and make the effort with the kids to do lots of sport, the fact that a primary school does no football at all doesn't strike you as a bit odd? A bit, y'know, not the right thing? I was playing a lot of sport at all ages at school.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:29 
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markg wrote:
Almost every athlete from an ordinary background seems to have a story about all the sacrifices their parents needed to make to get them there. Note I said "ordinary" not rich or poor. I have to assume that it's not even an option for many. How the fuck anyone can argue that a brief career in athletics is accessible to everyone is beyond me.

And this is even after all the money we have pumped into it so far. So much of the funding is currently targeted at medals and success in competition that the public health aspect takes a back seat. Obviously there is some crossover between those two goals but on the whole I think it's fucking bullshit and is a piss poor use of public money.


:this:

From my POV there is a *huge* distinction to be drawn between the entirely laudable aim of trying to get kids - all kids - fitter and healthier through sport and P.E., and expressly trying to develop a tiny, tiny minority of people to compete in utterly meaningless stuff like the Olympics. Especially if these few happen to be immensely privileged in monetary terms.

However, if we're getting worked up about mere physical education, how about just plain old education? The former is simply a small subset of the latter.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:30 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
WTB wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Well, possibly not, because that £7bn we spunked on Seb Coe's ego could have been spent on putting a decent multi-discipline sports programme in place in every single school (primary and senior) in the country, so parents didn't have to do this. I shoudln't have to pay for my son to play football (for fun!) at aged 6 for christ's sake.


Maybe I come from a sporty family or something but this doesn't seem outrageous to me at all. If you want your kids to play a sport, you're going to have to spend a bit of money, and you're probably going to have to sacrifice some of your own time to nurture a talent or just give your kids a healthy lifestyle. That'll never change.

Really? As happy as I am to pay and make the effort with the kids to do lots of sport, the fact that a primary school does no football at all doesn't strike you as a bit odd? A bit, y'know, not the right thing? I was playing a lot of sport at all ages at school.


Perhaps - I was in the school team in Junior school, but that was at ages 10/11. I had to play for a local "under 7s" team or whatever before that. Just the way it is I guess.

Primary school football was only available for Year 5 and Year 6. But this is one of the reasons we haven't won a world cup in nearly fifty years and probably won't any time soon. But getting kids to play football from a young age is a whole other argument that I also have totally correct opinions on.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:33 
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INFINITE POWAH

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WTB wrote:
Perhaps - I was in the school team in Junior school, but that was at ages 10/11. I had to play for a local "under 7s" team or whatever before that. Just the way it is I guess.

Or "the way it wouldn't be if we spent some of that £7bn on buying back all the playing fields we sold off".

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:34 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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WTB wrote:
Squirt wrote:
My theory : Elite athletes are SO good, they discourage people from taking part. You've seen Bradley Wiggins do a time trial, try to emulate him, get knackered after 3 miles and quit, because he may as well be some sort of alien super-human cyborg compared to you and using him as a role model is like trying to copy Superman.


That's not how it works at all! Genuine question: Have you ever been into a sport? That sounds like the logic of a person who would categorise themself as "not a sporty person". Not trying to offend, but that theory just doesn't compute in my brain as someone who loves sport.


That was entirely tongue-in-cheek, and should have had a :p in it. :D

Actually, I reckon one of the best things the Olympics does it is show non-mainstream sports at prime time. For a decent chunk of young 'uns, this is probably the only chance they'll get to see weightlifting or judo or fencing or water polo or volleyball on TV.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:34 
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I dunno. I think the excuse at the time was that kids under 10 "weren't ready" for competitive football. No excuse for not helping them play for fun, though.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 14:37 
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There is clearly some justification for the argument of spending that £7Bn on tangible things, such as Kissyfur's example, but I STILL think the Olympics will have a lasting good effect on sport in this country. Besides, how much of that money would've been spent on that sort of thing anyway had we not hosted the Olympics?

At the very least, increased interest in sport as a result of the Olympics might force the necessary hands to spend future cash on those sorts of investments.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 15:00 
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Paws for thought

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
WTB wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Well, possibly not, because that £7bn we spunked on Seb Coe's ego could have been spent on putting a decent multi-discipline sports programme in place in every single school (primary and senior) in the country, so parents didn't have to do this. I shoudln't have to pay for my son to play football (for fun!) at aged 6 for christ's sake.


Maybe I come from a sporty family or something but this doesn't seem outrageous to me at all. If you want your kids to play a sport, you're going to have to spend a bit of money, and you're probably going to have to sacrifice some of your own time to nurture a talent or just give your kids a healthy lifestyle. That'll never change.

Really? As happy as I am to pay and make the effort with the kids to do lots of sport, the fact that a primary school does no football at all doesn't strike you as a bit odd? A bit, y'know, not the right thing? I was playing a lot of sport at all ages at school.

I never did football at school. Frankly, they didnt need to as the kids just played it all the time anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 15:04 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
markg wrote:
Right so not having any pressing need to get a job and earn money is no advantage whatsoever.

I went to a fee-paying school and my parents aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Worst. Investment. Ever.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 15:15 
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Grim... wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
markg wrote:
Right so not having any pressing need to get a job and earn money is no advantage whatsoever.

I went to a fee-paying school and my parents aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Worst. Investment. Ever.

I'm alive, aren't I? You've met me - I would've got killed at state school. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 15:20 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Grim... wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
markg wrote:
Right so not having any pressing need to get a job and earn money is no advantage whatsoever.

I went to a fee-paying school and my parents aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Worst. Investment. Ever.

I'm alive, aren't I? You've met me - I would've got killed at state school. ;)


Worst. Investment. Ever.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 15:21 
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:DD


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 15:22 
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Gogmagog

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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Grim... wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
markg wrote:
Right so not having any pressing need to get a job and earn money is no advantage whatsoever.

I went to a fee-paying school and my parents aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Worst. Investment. Ever.

I'm alive, aren't I? You've met me - I would've got killed at state school. ;)


Briefcase wanker.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:30 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Mr Dave wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
WTB wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Well, possibly not, because that £7bn we spunked on Seb Coe's ego could have been spent on putting a decent multi-discipline sports programme in place in every single school (primary and senior) in the country, so parents didn't have to do this. I shoudln't have to pay for my son to play football (for fun!) at aged 6 for christ's sake.


Maybe I come from a sporty family or something but this doesn't seem outrageous to me at all. If you want your kids to play a sport, you're going to have to spend a bit of money, and you're probably going to have to sacrifice some of your own time to nurture a talent or just give your kids a healthy lifestyle. That'll never change.

Really? As happy as I am to pay and make the effort with the kids to do lots of sport, the fact that a primary school does no football at all doesn't strike you as a bit odd? A bit, y'know, not the right thing? I was playing a lot of sport at all ages at school.

I never did football at school. Frankly, they didnt need to as the kids just played it all the time anyway.

Our school didn't do football in PE for this very reason. We did Rugby, Athletics, Cricket seemingly one week a year, Tennis and Swimming. I was at a dirty comp and they've since upgraded the sports hall by selling playing fields. This would cause outrage, but the fields that they sold were so surplus to requirements (we had 4 rugby pitches, 2 hockey pitches, a 100m track and a cricket pitch in the field that was retained).

However, from year 10, snbooker and table tennis became PE options, so, y'know :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:35 
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Gold for the grim gritty urban sport of prancy-prancy-horses. A popular playground game in Middlesbrough


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:37 
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DavPaz wrote:
Gold for the grim gritty urban sport of prancy-prancy-horses. A popular playground game in Middlesbrough

Lies, that's selling crack.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:38 
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Only in primary school


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:43 
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In the velodrome sprint, has anyone ever just thought "fuck it" and gone flat out right from the gun?


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:46 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Trooper wrote:
In the velodrome sprint, has anyone ever just thought "fuck it" and gone flat out right from the gun?


Yes, Jason Kenny did against the French guy some time ago.

Malc

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:50 
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The bollocks slow weaving about bit is because you always want to be second wheel in a sprint. Nowt stopping you gunning it right from the off.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 16:55 
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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 18:08 
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Gold for Hoy! 47 medals already!


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 18:16 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Grim... wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
markg wrote:
Right so not having any pressing need to get a job and earn money is no advantage whatsoever.

I went to a fee-paying school and my parents aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Worst. Investment. Ever.

I'm alive, aren't I? You've met me - I wouldn't have got the taste for cock at state school. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 18:36 
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A note on the barrier to entry for 'posh' sports such as rowing.

Wasn't one of our gold medallists a PE teacher who had never done rowing before properly just four years ago? Then she made the effort to go to a 'Team GB talent thing' and got selected, etc?

I think if anyone is good enough and wants it enough to succeed at athletics they'll manage it. That certainly has the lowest barrier to entry. If we've got a kid in a deprived area running pro-standard times at any distance, they'll get the support they need.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 18:39 
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Blartin like a bost tap.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 19:02 
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Rude Belittler

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Dimrill wrote:
Blartin like a bost tap.

Sat on your bollocks again?


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 19:06 
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Curiosity wrote:
A note on the barrier to entry for 'posh' sports such as rowing.

Wasn't one of our gold medallists a PE teacher who had never done rowing before properly just four years ago? Then she made the effort to go to a 'Team GB talent thing' and got selected, etc?

I think if anyone is good enough and wants it enough to succeed at athletics they'll manage it. That certainly has the lowest barrier to entry. If we've got a kid in a deprived area running pro-standard times at any distance, they'll get the support they need.


:this: to everything.

I would be confident that if a random kid showed exceptional promise in running/cycling/football/almost anything at all, someone, somewhere, will be putting in a call to the British Athletics Club (or whoever), to get them scouted.

No guarantee you'll have a future Olympic champion on your hands, obviously, but then that doesn't appear to be the main argument in this thread - more that working class scum can't break into sport because the Tories won't let them play on the grass, or something.

Anyway, loads more medals won today, and yes it does matter, and yes it is important, and it was glorious to see.

The Olympics is made of fantastic.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 20:31 
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The UK has done so well, before this started I was pretty much turned off the whole event due to all the sponsors and general twats involved in the organising.

Found myself watching events and getting into it, even the transport has gone well.

Makes you proud to be from the UK.


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 Post subject: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:27 
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What's the story with all the gloating about the less than impressive Australian medal haul? For over a week now I have seen loads if tweets poking fun at Australia for their performance at the games but haven't seen/heard the reason why Australia are such a target at the moment?

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:54 
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Because they are Australia...during the period of Aussie Cricketing domination and after the Sydney Olympics you couldn't shut the buggers up.

They also take great delight in having a pop at the Kiwis which is a tad nasty, like picking on a toddler for not being able to walk properly...which is why it was so funny when they were level in the medals table.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:58 
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Because Australia are our biggest sporting rivals and for decades have been better than us at virtually any sport we compete in. The main rivalry is of course cricket, but any other England /Australia competition is referred to as an ashes match. In the past, when Australia have been so dominant in commonwealth games, they joked that they should enter as provinces to give us a chance, but then that would only mean that Australia took the first 6 positions in the table.

I've never seen this referred to at the Olympics until Beijing when Australia were far lower down the table than they were used to, and their newspapers referred to the team being woeful and "even GB are higher in the table than us". Of course logic says that the relative size of our populations means that this is logical, but neither we or Australia would ever accept this. If both teams had the same number of golds, silvers and only one medal different in bronze, this would be a yawning chasm of such magnitude that one team would be the greatest ever seen and the other should all kill themselves.

It's basically just good natured banter and when the tide eventually turns, we will get it all back with both barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:19 
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Found this article which is a bit relevant to the earlier discussion:

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/legacy_o ... tion-27735

Inconclusive but tends to support the view that recent Olympics haven't contributed much to participation in sports in the host nation.

Also this one about the Canadian experience:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editoria ... -in-sports

Which seems to indicate that the obsession with medals and targeting spending at elite athletes actually harms grassroots participation.

It costs more and more money all the time to win these medals and the money comes from funding for sports.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:41 
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Location: Shropshire, UK
MaliA wrote:
I saw a bit of the air pistol shooting and thought they had all turned up wearing shell suits. What does a shooting jacket do?

The jackets and trousers are very rigid (so much so that it's impossible to bend over in the trousers without unzipping them first.)

The idea is to help your body keep as still and steady as possible, as obviously even a slight movement can send your pellet way off course when you pull the trigger.

Air pistol shooters generally only wear that stuff at this level though, at the amateur/semi-pro level they tend to just wear jeans and a T-shirt, as rigidity isn't quite as important with pistol shooting as it is with rifle shooting.

The boots are tight around the ankles, and have a completely flat sole that keeps everything level.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:46 
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Morte wrote:
Because they are Australia...


Frankly, that is enough. :D

I think they were especially giving it large about what they were going to do to us in the cycling. That worked out so well for them!

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:34 
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Taekwondo is a bit good. Three points for a boot to the head!


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:39 
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Sitting balls-back folder

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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GazChap wrote:
The jackets and trousers are very rigid (so much so that it's impossible to bend over in the trousers without unzipping them first.)

The idea is to help your body keep as still and steady as possible, as obviously even a slight movement can send your pellet way off course when you pull the trigger.
Why don't they just switch to using a remote-controlled tripod?

Same with the cycling and "magic wheels" and that. Fucking just bring a Kawasaki then.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:39 
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Also, BMX starts today! 1600 on BBC1 apparently. Hope they show it properly else I'll have to watch it online.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:46 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 6612
WTB wrote:
Also, BMX starts today! 1600 on BBC1 apparently. Hope they show it properly else I'll have to watch it online.

I'm looking forward to this and the mountain biking. Hopefully there will be RAD AIR and GNARLY GRINDS and BODACIOUS TUBES. Dude.


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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:46 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Location: Cheshire
Grown-ups look stupid on BMX bikes.
Tony hawk also looks stupid skateboarding, given his age.
Should curtail it to the under 21s, only, for reasons of not looking silly.

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 Post subject: Re: OOO OOO OOO OOO The Olympics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:07 
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If looking silly was a problem they'd have to just ban cycling outright.


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