Switching to Linux..

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 20:32

I use this PC for web browsing, email (via web based interfaces), getting law reports and articles in .pdf format and few other things. For some reason, this computer repeatedly forgets the wireless password and it takes an age to get it running again, and Windows does not believe it is genuine, either.

So, if I were to stick some "distro" on it, approximately how hard is it going to be to get everything working (Radeon 9800 Pro, USB2.0 card, wireless card, a fan and a couple of hard drives) and working with less effort that it is now.

And will my games work?

And Open Office.

Love and hugs, MaliA.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Linux Mint is the best for you, I'd say. It'll set all the crap up by itself, including all your drivers, codecs, OpenOffice...everything. Install, load, done. No fiddling required.

It's based on Ubuntu, and it's solid.

What games are you trying to run? Anythign newish isn't gonna work properly. I run WoW, Lordy Lordy Online, CS:Source, Sam and Max, and EvE all fine, though.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

MaliA wrote:

Love and hugs, MaliA.

Ubuntu is good and things work far better than they used to but the moment you go outside of what is provided you end up having to delve into command line and heading into a world of grief. Likewise driver support is good but can be a pain. For example although my old printer would work in Linux I couldn't access all the usual print options.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

I'm currently testing Intrepid RC1 on a separate partition. It's OK. I think I'll wait for the Mintified version though, it's just so much easier to use and it's set up to do things like play DVDs out of the box. I wouldn't imagine there's anything you need to do that the standard setup wouldn't cover.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Mali -- you'll get a good idea of driver support by downloading and burning an ISO of a distribution (say, Ubuntu or this Mint thing) and booting off it without installing anything. If stuff works there, it'll work when it's installed.

Sheepeh -- what's this Mint stuff? What does it do on top of Ubuntu? Also, good god, I ran Debian sid for four years; if you need Ubuntu to get any easier you're a nuclear powered wuss

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

I tried Ubuntu last weekend. It couldn't use my 2nd monitor at all and didn't understand the digital out on my soundcard.

17 years and Linux still can't run a basic system properly.

(I eventually got the 2nd monitor running with binary only nvidia drivers but it still could only stretch the image across both. To use them separately required a restart, after the restart it went back to 1 monitor only every time).

In conclusion, if you have only 1 monitor and are happy with analogue sound, Ubuntu'll work.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10144

Wireless is still an issue, although less so. Best* thing you can do is go through the Windows Device Manager finding the PCI vendor and device IDs, then sticking those into the Linux PCI ID repository to see what support is available.

* most boring and tedious. If you're lucky there's a way to get a nice simple list, I've never looked.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Dudley wrote:

In conclusion, if you have only 1 monitor and are happy with analogue sound, Ubuntu'll work.

Both those things work for me -- in fact, I was running a two headed Linux workstation in 1998. So your sweeping statement is rather too sweeping. I'll accept you had problems, but it's not fair to say it doesn't work at all.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Mint is simply based on Ubuntu, but they filter the updates to stop things breaking, keep it stable, and automatically do things like installing the codecs, easier menus, nicer artwork, things like that. It's basically Ubuntu how it's MEANT to be.

Also, I managed to run a 2 x monitor over DVI by "plug in two monitors, enable nvidia driver when it asks, restart". And you don't even need to restart if you don't want to.

http://www.linuxmint.com/ <-- check it out. It'll boot to a LiveCD so you can check everything all works, and then you can click Install on the Live Desktop and choose where you want it. When you reboot it'll all be sorted.

RBR2 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 21:25

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Sheepeh wrote:

Mint is simply based on Ubuntu, but they filter the updates to stop things breaking, keep it stable, and automatically do things like installing the codecs, easier menus, nicer artwork, things like that. It's basically Ubuntu how it's MEANT to be.

Maybe I'll take a look, but I have to say, none of these things have been pain points for me under Ubuntu. Once you've unsnarled a major grade apt-get fuckup in Debian sid, you get pretty used to sorting out Ubuntu-style minor issues.

I need to rebuild my Linux system this week, I snagged the 8.10 RC earlier. I seem to have lost my CD-Rs though.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Dudley wrote:

In conclusion, if you have only 1 monitor and are happy with analogue sound, Ubuntu'll work.

Both those things work for me -- in fact, I was running a two headed Linux workstation in 1998. So your sweeping statement is rather too sweeping. I'll accept you had problems, but it's not fair to say it doesn't work at all.

Good for you. But Ubuntu claims "Linux for humans". If it doesn't work on ANY perfectly sensibly built system with only popular mainstream components in (It's a perfectly standard nforce motherboard and Geforce 7600GS) and an hours effort from a guy with a CS degree and multi year programming experience can't make it work properly then it's simply not ready. Still.

If I was running some weird 3rd part graphics card and a fancy music makers soundcard it's a debate, but trying to use the digital out on possibly the single most popular chipset in existence? No. I dare say you linux gods could make it work, but that's no use at all if they want to stop normal people using Windows.

Quote:

Also, I managed to run a 2 x monitor over DVI by "plug in two monitors, enable nvidia driver when it asks, restart". And you don't even need to restart if you don't want to.

Fwiw, neither monitor is DVI, it's the sound that was digital.

And you DO need to reset to do 2 seperate desktops rather than "Maximise uses both monitors".

Well, technically you have to restart x but it provided no easy means to do so, so I had to restart the PC.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Sheepeh wrote:

Mint is simply based on Ubuntu, but they filter the updates to stop things breaking, keep it stable, and automatically do things like installing the codecs, easier menus, nicer artwork, things like that. It's basically Ubuntu how it's MEANT to be.

Maybe I'll take a look, but I have to say, none of these things have been pain points for me under Ubuntu. Once you've unsnarled a major grade apt-get fuckup in Debian sid, you get pretty used to sorting out Ubuntu-style minor issues.

I need to rebuild my Linux system this week, I snagged the 8.10 RC earlier. I seem to have lost my CD-Rs though.

If Ubuntu works for you, there's no massive reason to upgrade. It uses the Ubuntu repos. It's just a preferable system for me, to be honest. The Intrepid based version will be out in a few months (they let a new version get stable before they work on it).

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

I'll give the mint live CD a shot and see if it spots either of my issues. For MaliA it doesn't sound like either will be an issue. I don't have wireless but it needed no prompting to pick up the wired network.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

I won't lie; Linux can take some work, and if you're familiar with Windows it's a real shock to the system because everything is very different. But the last few times I've put Ubuntu on various systems I've found it streets ahead of Windows in terms of hardware detection. I would suggest it's worth persisting with.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Dudley wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Dudley wrote:

In conclusion, if you have only 1 monitor and are happy with analogue sound, Ubuntu'll work.

Both those things work for me -- in fact, I was running a two headed Linux workstation in 1998. So your sweeping statement is rather too sweeping. I'll accept you had problems, but it's not fair to say it doesn't work at all.

Good for you. But Ubuntu claims "Linux for humans". If it doesn't work on ANY perfectly sensibly built system with only popular mainstream components in (It's a perfectly standard nforce motherboard and Geforce 7600GS) and an hours effort from a guy with a CS degree and multi year programming experience can't make it work properly then it's simply not ready. Still.

If I was running some weird 3rd part graphics card and a fancy music makers soundcard it's a debate, but trying to use the digital out on possibly the single most popular chipset in existence? No. I dare say you linux gods could make it work, but that's no use at all if they want to stop normal people using Windows.

It worked simply by clicking it on nvidia control panel for me. And the Nvidia drivers do provide multi desktop, aspect ratio settings, scaling settings, it's THE SAME as the Windows one.

And to restart X, log out. Or push ctrl-alt-backspace.

Quote:

Also, I managed to run a 2 x monitor over DVI by "plug in two monitors, enable nvidia driver when it asks, restart". And you don't even need to restart if you don't want to.

Fwiw, neither monitor is DVI, it's the sound that was digital.

And you DO need to reset to do 2 seperate desktops rather than "Maximise uses both monitors".

Well, technically you have to restart x but it provided no easy means to do so, so I had to restart the PC.

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 21:52

Sheepeh wrote:

Linux Mint is the best for you, I'd say. It'll set all the crap up by itself, including all your drivers, codecs, OpenOffice...everything. Install, load, done. No fiddling required.

It's based on Ubuntu, and it's solid.

What games are you trying to run? Anything newish isn't gonna work properly. I run WoW, Lordy Lordy Online, CS:Source, Sam and Max, and EvE all fine, though.

OK, cool, gameswise, it's old stuff like Dawn of War, Defcon, Railroad Tycoon 3 and Medieval total war (II being the most recent).

hardware side, I do have some installation cds, but it's only really the gfx card to run the one shonky monitor, the new printer, the wireless card and the pci usb card.

It's going to be a big step for me to do this, but i'd rather things work to get my work done and not have the rubish windows thing be a pain and I might learn something down the way.

The failsafe is the laptop downstairs, so all is well in that respect.

Also, where's a good deal for XBox live?

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

My pointless annecodote is that I've had significantly more trouble installing XP than I've ever had with Linux. And much less trouble with drivers.

I wouldn't say Linux is ready for the mainstream mearly because I don't think any operating system that doesn't come preinstalled on the machine is ready for the mainstream frankly.

I'm quite hopeful about netbooks runing linux though, I would happily give one of them to my mum. If she could see the screen...

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Put away those CDs, you won't need them.

You can't use Windows drivers. Except for some wireless cards, but you want to avoid doing that if possible. It'll get all the drivers you need off it's own CD. When plop the Linux CD in your drive it'll boot off it, and quite literally boot to a working desktop. If it all works fine, then click Install and you're away. You can even keep browsing the net and things while it installs. If it doesn't, then where you go from there depends on what isn't working.

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 22:02

I just got 13 months of XBox live from the link from ehre for 28 notes. Woo and hoo.

Either way, if it works, cool, if not, I'm sure I can shanghai someone in to make it work to my level, I'm not looking for top performance, just something that works, if you see what I mean.

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 22:03

Sheepeh wrote:

Put away those CDs, you won't need them.

You can't use Windows drivers. Except for some wireless cards, but you want to avoid doing that if possible. It'll get all the drivers you need off it's own CD. When plop the Linux CD in your drive it'll boot off it, and quite literally boot to a working desktop. If it all works fine, then click Install and you're away. You can even keep browsing the net and things while it installs. If it doesn't, then where you go from there depends on what isn't working.

Thanks man, I know I'm shit with technical stuffs, but will have a go at this tomorrow. Where do I find this iso linky thing?

Pod · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2568

Lave wrote:

I wouldn't say Linux is ready for the mainstream mearly because I don't think any operating system that doesn't run games without third party virtualization software is ready for the mainstream frankly..

FFFXx

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

If you get any issues or need to ask questions, I believe we have a few people who will be able to answer questions. Just sometimes, you might not know what question to ask, because Linux is such a different beast to Windows.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Pod wrote:

Lave wrote:

I wouldn't say Linux is ready for the mainstream mearly because I don't think any operating system that doesn't run games without third party virtualization software is ready for the mainstream frankly..

FFFXx

Except it does. WINE is a win32 API, not a virtual machine. And games like Doom, Quake, Defcon, Darwinia, Uplink, et al have native versions.

Of course, the virtual machine CAN run XP, Vista, and anything else you want it to, but it WON'T run games. There's no 3d drivers in it, see.

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 22:24

Heh, funny story, I don't appear to have a cd burner...

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/ ... t-5-r1.iso

That's a direct download to Mint.

And as for having a CD burner, you can purchase CDs for a nominal fee, or I expect one of us can post you a CD if you need one.

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 22:29

My beautiful assistant just reminded me that we have 2 laptops that can do that sort of thing. Thanks for the link, though. I suspect tomorrow is going to be a day filled full of highs and lows. And CoD4 face shooting excellence. And an essay on EU law.

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 23:38

Last time I put Ubuntu on a laptop the wireless stuff was a fucking bitch.

Joans · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8654

Grim... wrote:

Last time I put Ubuntu on a laptop the wireless stuff was a fucking bitch.

, but it was a few years ago. Do you still have to use ndiswrapper?

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Joans wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Last time I put Ubuntu on a laptop the wireless stuff was a fucking bitch.

, but it was a few years ago. Do you still have to use ndiswrapper?

For certain cards. Depends what you're using.

It's come on in leaps and bounds, but I personally scrapped the wireless card, bought an access point to provide a wired bridge to the PC, 360, PS2, and Xbox 1 without any hassles. It works with the Nforce 4 ethernet port perfectly.

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 23:45

Don't get me wrong, it's ace as a server, and it'll do, I guess, for desktop stuff, assuming you don't have much to do. But for wireless it was a no go.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

I bought an ibook rather than getting Linux working on a Laptop.

I would always go with a Linux desktop though. And those little EEE PCs are v.tempting.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Tue Oct 28, 2008 23:59

Lave wrote:

I bought an ibook rather than getting Linux working on a Laptop.

I would always go with a Linux desktop though. And those little EEE PCs are v.tempting.

that kinda does not make sense.... i thought an eee pc was a laptop.

one of the guys at work has dumped windows altogether for laptops, desktops and servers.... he said he has never looked back

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

I bought a ibook to use unix rather than struggle with finding a laptop that nicely plays with Linux. But those EEE PC notebooks ship with linux, so clearly work 100% which is enough to tempt me back to the linux side...

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

I think you'll find that, as a closed platform with little hardware variation, the iBook runs Linux very nicely!

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

I think you'll find that, as a closed platform with little hardware variation, the iBook runs Linux very nicely!

Indeed the irony wasn't lost on me when I popped a Yellow Dog Live CD in and it worked awesomely. I may switch it over when Apple drops PPC support (if it's still ticking over). Indeed buying a mac is a good choice if you want a linux laptop. If you can stomach the apple tax.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:14

Sheepeh wrote:

http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/stable/5/LinuxMint-5-r1.iso

That's a direct download to Mint.

And as for having a CD burner, you can purchase CDs for a nominal fee, or I expect one of us can post you a CD if you need one.

I downloaded that, firefox said it was 690 meg, but the file on the desktop is only 24 meg...

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:25

I had that problem too, I redownloaded it and it is 600+ meg

I installed it yesterday on another machine, and it looks sweet.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:27

Kovacs Caprios wrote:

I had that problem too, I redownloaded it and it is 600+ meg

I installed it yesterday on another machine, and it looks sweet.

I'm downloading it to this one now, problem is probably with MrsA's old laptop.

EDIT: Hmm, it crapepd out at 69 meg on this one. Tim,e to use a download manager i think.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:09

MaliA wrote:

Kovacs Caprios wrote:

I had that problem too, I redownloaded it and it is 600+ meg

I installed it yesterday on another machine, and it looks sweet.

I'm downloading it to this one now, problem is probably with MrsA's old laptop.

EDIT: Hmm, it crapepd out at 69 meg on this one. Tim,e to use a download manager i think.

If you can't get it to download. I can post you a cd!

I do like mint over unbunto (spelling) it is not brown!! I will play tonight and do some updates..

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 13:43

ARGH! YOU STUPID, STUPID BOY MALIA!

As it was only downloading a little bit on the laptop, I tried it on this one. And it only downloaded a little bit.

So I got a download manager, and downloaded it, and it worked 100%. Onto the desktop without a cd burner.... And I can't find my memory sticks.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 13:45

MaliA wrote:

ARGH! YOU STUPID, STUPID BOY MALIA!

As it was only downloading a little bit on the laptop, I tried it on this one. And it only downloaded a little bit.

So I got a download manager, and downloaded it, and it worked 100%. Onto the desktop without a cd burner.... And I can't find my memory sticks.

What are you!!

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 13:46

Kovacs Caprios wrote:

MaliA wrote:

ARGH! YOU STUPID, STUPID BOY MALIA!

As it was only downloading a little bit on the laptop, I tried it on this one. And it only downloaded a little bit.

So I got a download manager, and downloaded it, and it worked 100%. Onto the desktop without a cd burner.... And I can't find my memory sticks.

What are you!!

Pike ,sir, corporal Pike.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 14:08

No network?

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 14:10

Grim... wrote:

No network?

Good plan. If I put it on the "shared docs" on Charlotte, then laptop might be able to grab it?

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 14:15

Surely should.
Have fun getting Samba to work once you're running Ubuntu

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Mint comes with Samba already set up and configured chap. It can browse network shares from the live CD, even.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 15:35

Grim...'s been LINUXPWND.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 30, 2008 15:39

Ah. I've got plain old Gutsy, and somehow failed to notice Mali wasn't getting plain Ubuntu.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Oh, and it comes with Flash and all the crap all set up too.

Even the 64bit version works with everything perfectly fine.

Be Excellent To Each Other

Switching to Linux..
I'm tired of this stuffs

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Be Excellent To Each Other

Switching to Linux.. I'm tired of this stuffs

Who is online

Switching to Linux..
I'm tired of this stuffs