Be Excellent To Each Other

A chum works for a small company (about 15 people) that isn't doing so well in the Current Economic Climate™.
Last Thursday was payday, but when she looked in her bank account her wages hadn't gone in. It turns out that they couldn't afford all the wages, and had decided not to pay three people in the office. She is, apparently, getting paid tomorrow.
Surely she can take them to the cleaners over this?

For her wages, yes. And any charges or costs she incurs due to not having her money in her account on time.

As with any breach of contract claim (the breached contract term in this instance presumably being "you will be paid on x date"), you have to show what loss you've suffered.

There's a possibility that there may be employment law issues, so I'll leave that to Friend of the Working Man, The Internet's The Famous Richard Gaywood. But I'm not certain that there would be.

Unfortunately not. It depends what it says in her contract. I believe the Company have a set period of time they can pay in the wages from the usual payday. IANAL etc, though.

If this had anything to do with the preliminary ruling procedure...

Either way, when you get that cash, GET. THE. FUCK. OUT. of that company.

Very much this. Or she could find that come next pay day they don't have the cash to pay her at all.

I want to see a copy of her contract to find out if she could just walk out of the door over this without worrying about her notice period.

Or that in fact there's no company

Almost certainly I'd imagine but you might as well stay there while you hunt.

If the contract has a specific date for payment then yes - she could likely rescind the contract on the basis of a material breach of its terms by them, and then possibly claim constructive dismissal if she wanted to cause trouble.

no point in walking if you don't have a job to go to.

Plus I would rather be paid a few days late than be unemployed

Seriously, keep that sort of thing to yourself, please.

Her contract says she gets paid "On or about the 28th".

I'd say that the 31st is 'about the 28th', sadly.

Mine is similar, as to allow for weekends... ie if 28 falls on sat or sunday, they normall pay friday before

What those two said.

2 or 3 days late isn't exactly "material", unfortunately.

As noted, alarm bells should be ringing seriously fucking loudly if their cashflow is such that they have to withhold three workers' pay for a few days. That's what, 6-10 grand? That's a worryingly low amount of cash in the bank they've got if they can't meet that.

The reason I chimed in in the first place is because exactly this happened to me a few years ago. I tried legal recourse and got nowhere.

I know we should worry in this economic climate, but it was a bank error at the time, and the company was solvent.

Mine says "Last working day of month"

Regardless, I'd still be looking for a way out.

You guys are lucky, I don't even have a contract

Really? how so?

My boss never drew one up. She hasn't for anyone at the company. I know that that's technically "wrong" but it's worked alright for the last (nearly) 5 years so I'm not too fussed.

I think it's technically "against the law".

Don't baffle him with technical language, man.

IS BAD LAW THINGY, G-UNIT

Yeah, I know. That's what I meant by "wrong". Like Mr Chris said, I get easily baffled, gotta keep it simple. I get paid on time every month and it's all official with PAYE and all that nonsense, so it's just a technicality to me

I guess as I'm registered as self-employed anyway it doesn't make a difference in my case.

But you don't have any notice perios with out a contract.. ie they could tell you tomorrow not to come back, and stop paying you. or you could just walk out.

When I was freelance, i always had contratcs to cover me as well as them

Not so. From worksmart.org.uk: "If no notice period is specified in the contract, then the law sets minimum periods of notice which your employer must give, according to the length of time you have worked for your employer. For example, if you have worked for your employer for more than one month but less than two years, the law says that your employer must give you at least one week’s notice."

Also on the topic of notice periods:

"The law says you are entitled to at least 1 week's notice after one month and up to 2 years' service. After that you are entitled to 1 week for every year of service up to 12 years' service. So for 6 years' service you would be entitled to 6 weeks' notice and for 20 years' service you would be entitled to 12 weeks' notice."

That's regardless of contracts.

Trust me, I've already looked into these things a lot because initially, not having a contract really bothered me. I trust my boss though. And I'm not just saying that because she's Curiosity's step-sister.

If you're self-employed, aren't Flunky Fipfaps technically a client, then? You should always have contracts with your clients.

No. Flunky Fipfaps are clients of the company I work for (Curiosity's step-sister owns Flunky Fipfaps, but his other step-sister is my boss) so as I'm technically self-employed, really my client is the company I work for.

And yes, I probably should have contracts.

I can draft them for you. £240 an hour. Or, as it's you, I'll give you mates' rates - £239.99.

Different step-sister. Funky FF have a contract, potentially, with Gaz's employer. Gaz should have one with your employer, but that is up to him. Gaz, I am unsure where you stand wrt the above, as if you are technically self-employed, then as there is no contract at all, you may still not be able to claim you are in contract with your employer as an employee.

Oh well, I'll just have to hope no-one's screwing me then

I should haaah... Nope. Too easy.

that's why we let you have her

Just thought about this one - as my employer pays me through the usual official channels (PAYE or whatever it's called) I would imagine that is good enough for it to be official employment.

Could be wrong though.

if you are PAYE then you are not self employed are you?

Do you pay NI?

A good point. If you're self-employed you pay corporation tax instead, surely?

to paraphrase a lecture of mine.

Also, there is a fiver up for grabs in class for the person who, after 12 weeks, sticks their hand up and says "surely, it isn't a contract if it isn't written down?"

*bang*
*bang*
*bang*

Ow, my head.

Heh, that was worth it just to make Chris angry. I was getting confused because I used to pay corporation tax, but that's because I had my own ltd co.

no no no..


tax and National Insurance are seperate.

You must pay your NI no matter what..

Err, yes, I know that.

I always used to think that national insurance was something we all had to pay for in case we broke France's china at state dinners.

Good Good....

and VAT i hated doing that....

Nice fines for not paying NI and TAX

Prison for not paying VAT.

I remember when I had a ltd company.

Well, their ambassador is just too generous.

Good job I put you straight about that, eh?

You can go to prison for not paying income tax, too - whether ltd or self-employed.

i know, but you can barter with teh tax man....

Not on stuff that you are obliged to do anyway. You can't offer up an existing debt as a consideration.....

You can be employed and self-employed at the same time.

Yes, in both my employment and my self-employment. I'm a sole trader though so no corporation tax or anything.

Also, what's hard about VAT? You just get a total for your sales in the period and stick 17.5% on it!

I will give you four pretty stones and a bag of beans, sir!