Be Excellent To Each Other

As some of you might be aware, the *cough* gf works for a charity. She's wanted to work for a charity for the last couple of years. She took severance from her last job, enrolled in an expensive fundraising course at the OU and studied her arse off while volunteering for other charities in order to gain experience. After passing her course with airbourne colours, she managed to get a job with a local hospice as their sole fundraiser. She was well chuffed.

She is now not well chuffed. She is being worked to absolute death. Given the nature of the job, it requires occasionally working outside of 9-5 on various fundraising events, which she happily accepts. Since nobody pays overtime anymore, she gets this back as time in lieu. In theory.

She is one of the most hardworking and conscientious people I know. The kind that never shirks and wouldn't spend, say, half the day posting on an internets forum. She has been working her proverbial nads off for the last 6 months, which is largely responsible for the previously noted relationship stress.

Now, here lies the problem, and the reason for this post. Because she's the only fundraiser, she's being utterly drowned by the sheer volume of work. Put simply, it's just too much for one person. It's almost impossible to focus on one task for any length of time because she's continuously interrupted by volunteers, or meetings, phone calls, or people just wanting to talk to her about the possibility of putting on an event, etc etc.

She is given 22 days of holiday a year, and after half a year, she has taken two of those days off. Furthermore, she has accumulated over 80 hours of time in lieu. That's over two full weeks of working time. She can't take her 'proper' holiday until the time in lieu is used up, which is becoming quite impossible as its just going up, not down. She's only given half an hour for lunch, but confesses to me she never takes it. There's no time.

She's absolutely knackered, never has any energy and needs a damn good holiday. Actually, at this point, she deserves a full month off given the time she's owed. Except, as the sole fundraiser, she can't take it.

Her boss is an absolute cunt. I mean, seriously, a fucking wanker. I'm inches away from storming into the office and battering him to death. Yesterday she came home in tears because this fucking fucking dickface told her that she looked tired, and was failing to cope with the job because 'she wasn't prioritising' properly.

Obviously, my head is liable to pop, so after some stern discussions with her we've decided on two courses of action.

1) She goes to her HR person, and gets her greviances put on the record. i.e. she's working herself to death, never has time off, and her boss has the fucking gaul to imply she isn't working properly. These greviances will then be taken to the Chef Exec (her boss' boss) for her to do something about. She'd need to work half days between now and Christmas to get her back to 'evens' on the time scale, which is a logistical impossibility so some kind of adequate compensation needs to be offered. SOMETHING has to be done immediately. Weak promises about future time off will not cut it.

2) She leaves. Given she's owed two weeks in lieu, and a good two weeks in holiday allowance, she wouldn't even have to work her notice. She could walk out the door today. It's taken me a while to convince her this is an option.

Down to the employment law. If she has to take option 2 I'm seriously thinking about putting a case together for constructive dismissal. She's being put in an impossible situation of pressure to get things done and never being able to take off the time that is her legal requirement.

The cunt boss always says to her 'make sure you take your time in lieu' (to cover himself) while simultaneously telling her that she needs to get all the work done. More than once she's tried to book herself a full week off but has been refused, because they 'need her too much that week'.

She's miserable, I'm furious. What are the legal options, legal-eagles? Anyone got any better suggestions that don't involve me and my sledgehammer?

Charities are often like this sadly, because the know it's very difficult to look good when you complain.

Worth noting that the previous person in her job had to leave due to stress. Shock.

I've got a mate that works for a charity, and she's in almost exactly the same position.
Can you get constructive dismissal if you quit?
Hang on, I'll ask a chum who works in HR.

If you seriously want to go for constructive dismissal, or some other sort of breach of contract, you need a solid paper trail. Written evidence that holiday requests were denied, clock in/out times if possible, that sort of thing. Written letters to HR complaining about her situation, followed by followup letters explaining that her greviences weren't heard.

This'd take months to pull together; I suspect the pragmatic course is to simply look for another job, sadly. She should definitely kick off at HR though. I expect MyFinger will pitch into this thread with some facts later.

Do point the first.

Check with the CAB that point the second is legal. And then say that she will do it.

It's the only time you can put in for it afaik. In otherwords, they made you quit by making the job impossible, which is just as bad as dismissing you for no reason.

She gets paid virtually nothing for this btw, fractionally above what is now minimum wage I think. I get paid way more and am a lazy shit by comparison.

Yes. Constructive dismissal hasn't happened until you quit!

Also, I forgot to mention earlier, European working time regulations. Has she signed an opt-out form?

The trouble with suing a charity is that's the only bit that the public will ever here and they'll immediately think "Evil bitch, stealing from the kids, trees, animals (delete as applicable)"

Which is why people don't, and why they get away with it.

Good point, will check.

If she has, she can't do anything immediately but she can revoke the opt-out (usually have to give three months notice of this though). Then they won't be allowed to work her more than whatever the requirements are.

Also also: four weeks paid leave per annum is a UK legal right, of course.

This is why her boss is such a cunt. He always says 'make sure you take lunch' and 'make sure you take that time in lieu' purely to cover himself. So when questioned, he can say 'But I told her to take it and evidently she chose not to'.

It's a slimey fucking tactic. Arrraraghgggh *splode*

Hmm. My GF went through almost exactly the same scenario a couple of years ago.
She started back in computer programming this week.

Dunno what to suggest other than 'leave' though, cut your losses sort of thing.

Might be worth her giving ACAS a call and seeing where she stands? I work for an EL company but more for the employers rather than employees so we get a lot of queries of employees which we refer to ACAS.

Also, regarding the Working Time Directive, the opt-out can't be included in your employment contract, it has to be separate.

I would, to be honest, start taking lunch and taking my TOIL and basically just work the hours I'm paid to. If the work isn't done, then stuff it.

Mm. Letter to HR listing grievances, demanding to take time in lieu and holidays now so they don't get lost. See how well they cope with her missing for 6 weeks in the run up to Christmas. Then, if the boss is the cunt you say, they fire her, and she's got an absolute rock-solid case for tribunal.

Easy to say when it's not me in the situation.

Grim... and BikNorton are saying exactly what I would also do in this situation -- but we're all the kind of hard nosed bastards who wouldn't get into this state in the first place.

Also set out now a clear schedule between now and the end of the holiday year for using all her TOIL and remaining holiday, and pass it on to her manager and HR rep. He can't prevent her from taking it before the end of the period, so it's in his interest to co-operate with a clear plan of when it will be.

No it's not - it's 12 days, if my little brain remembers rightly.

Fund-raising is a fucking demoralising job anyway. Especially when it's on the basis of "if you get this funding, we'll be able to pay you next quarter!"

It is 4 weeks, but they can include bank holidays

Me too. I'm sure this cunt wouldn't try to undermine the confidence of a bloke in the same way, chances are he couldn't.

Quite right, at a minimum. Such a plan would also have to accomodate the additional time she'll accumulate between now and Christmas too. My worry is that the boss will attempt to refuse her (illegal, obv), or attempt to guilt or otherwise pressure her into not taking it.

All awesome advice thus far chaps, I will be passing it on. Thanks

Yeah, sorry. I was thinking of Ireland, I think...

Then why doesn't she just take it?

"I will be absent during these times because I'm taking my lieu."

If he says no, simply resubmit the request with the dates a week further away.

Document the process.

Very quickly you'll have a case of "I couldn't take my holiday."

That said she's lucky she GETS time in lieu, I certainly don't.



That changed. It either is, or will very shortly be 4 weeks + BH.

Ok chaps and chapesses.

Legal minimum requirement to annual leave is currently 24 days per year, legally you do not get bank holidays off work so this 24 would include them as a legal minimum. If your contract says different, for example 25 days paid holiday plus statutory public holidays or some such, or if it is custom and practice to have public holidays off paid then that is your legal amount of annual leave. Forget about legal minimums.

WTR says that it is the employer's responsibility to ensure these are taken. The days of rolling up unused holiday and paying it are gone. Also you cannot carry over any holiday from the statutory minimum to the following year. Eg if you have 25 days annual leave + 8 days public holiday you have 33 days leave. So the legal maximum you can carry forward is 8. The 24 legal minimum is also being extended to 28 soon (I can't remember when as it is largely irrelevant to 99% of employers since even the most Scrooge-like offer 20+public holidays already).

With respect to Mrs Gnomes. She has no leg to stand on if she just quits without giving her employer an opportunity to resolve her grievances. So as others have said, she needs to start the process through her systems.

Her boss says she doesn't prioritise her work properly. Perhaps she needs coaching, guidance, training on this? This is a training issue for the employer. Treat it as such. "I need help here boss". Here's what I have on, how should I deal with this? What is a priority? What is not? Make damn sure the boss knows what you have on and what will fall aside in order to deal with the important things. Work hard, but only for the time allotted. Not through lunch and not out of hours.

If the boss plays ostrich, then it's time to approach HR and lodge a grievance for lack of management support and guidance and general don't care attitude. If the boss has a previous underling who has highlighted similar issues he/she ought to be getting nervous about being the common factor. The figure for the cost to the organisation of paying someone a chunk of sick leave, lost work and then advertising, interviewing, recruiting and training a new person is estimated at about £13k on average. The won't want to do all that again unless they really have to. And if they can deal with the boss once rather than dealing with 50 fundraisers they will.

On a personal note, she does need to take control of her work and not let it control her. Easy to say but more difficult to achieve I know. For example. Mornings. Phone off and no new email. Deal with what's there. Take 30 mins lunch AWAY FROM DESK. Come back energised (in theory). Check voicemail and email. Deal with important issues. Place non-importants aside for tomorrow morning. This is just an example of something I have seen work for someone. But however she does it is whatever suits her type of work.

It is perfectly likely that the boss isn't a cunt per say, just incompetent or badly organised himself. Or even so ignorant of other's problems that they don't seem like problems.

Finally, to round this off! There is no shame in saying I can't cope with this workload if it is too much. Whatever the issue, whether it's time management or staffing or support it can be resolved. That is your objective.

End transmission.

1m isk to that man right there. Cheers chap, I'll forward that verbatim to the gf now

I love this forum

Nah. Any self respecting charity is run in exactly the same way as any other business - you shouldn't give or expect any leeway (in this sort of situation) simply because the organisation you work for happens to have charitable status.

As an addendum to Myfinger - from April 1st next year the statutory minimum is 28 days inclusive of bank holidays.

So you get 20 days + BHs as a minimum.

And if you work for a company that aren't shits, you'll get 28 + BHs.

Four extra days off next year. Woohoo!

EDIT - as another addundum, he addressed this and I missed it first time round. Doh!

So we were all right then. 12 days + 8 Bank Holidays = 20 days = 4 weeks.

You shouldn't.

People do.

People don't join charities to get rich, they join it because they think it'll do some good and that means they can (but not should) get away with being utter bastards in a way a company wouldn't.

No, you belm merchant.

Currently 24 days min (incl of BHs)

Rising to 28 days min (Incl of BHs) in April.

I don't think you'll see any company increase 20+BH to 28+BH, they'll stay exactly as they are now.

Indeed, but I severely doubt that there are many (if any) currently running 20 + BH, as it would mean you're actually taking forced annual leave for half of the BHs.

So your company will likely either be 20 + BH or 28 + BH.

Mine is currently 25 + BH, so I'll get three more days next year, I hope. I know other financial firms are instituting this (AIG, for one amusing example).

I get 23 + BH, and I expect it to remain thus.

I'm far from an expert on employment law, but if you're being required to count a bank holiday as annual leave, wouldn't that mean you have to change your contract to allow them to do this?

I get 25 plus BHs, I have no idea if that's going to change in april or not.

Malc

I get 33 but have to work BHs unless I book them off.

The same here!!

I have no idea how many I get.

30 + bh's. Still that gets shit on by the wife who is a teacher and is thusly off roughly 50% of the time. Mind you, I couldnt deal with the kids, so she deserves it!

26+BH. That's 25 basic plus 1 for 5 years service.

I think my company does that too, but I've not been there 5 years yet...

Malc

I lost five days holiday (30 - 25) by switching jobs, but the extra moneys were worth it.

25 plus BHs plus extra random days at Christmas or New Year's depending on when the bank holidays fall. I'll get plus one for every 5 years.

What the fuck are you dribbling about man!

He's not. He's getting 3 more annual leave days than legal PLUS BHs.

The legal limit doesn't become "28 including bank holidays", it becomes "20 + the bank holidays". The contract would have to deal with working the BHs if they made him do so.

Isn't that a bit crap? I get the same, but one for each year, up to a maximum of (I think) 5.

It's not brilliant, but it's not exactly shit either.

Let us ignore Bank Holidays to begin with.

Current legal requirements:
24 days holiday per year.

Legal requirements as of next year.
28 days holiday per year.

So a company currently giving you 20 days holiday is under the current legislation. However, the 8 Bank Holidays give you 28 days holiday, and you're safe... BUT, you are effectively being forced to take 4 BHs as annual leave. Next year, should things not change, you will be forced to take every BH as annual leave (assuming your job is one where Bank Holiday leave is compulsory).

I would expect companies to either run holiday scheems where either all or none of your bank holidays were counted as annual leave.

In my office, we get 25 + BHs. So we're over the safe zone for annual leave without BHs. I expect us to increase to 28 next year to maintain the Bank Holidays as separate from Annual Leave.

In the other case, companies would currently have 16 days annual leave + BHs = the 24 legally required. They will need to increase by four days by law, and would become a 20 + BHs, as stated in my original post.